Meet a Backslider: Interview #3
Meet the Backsliders is an interview series I’m creating for anyone who’s ever wondered, “What if climbing the ladder isn’t the point?” Each interview explores how smart, driven people got tired of chasing success that didn’t feel like success and what happened when they decided to backslide on purpose. If you missed the first two Backslider interviews, you can read them here and here.
Every Backslider featured here has shared their story with generosity and truth, in a Q&A format. Their words are their own (with light editing for tone and flow from yours truly) - with identifying details kept vague to honor privacy (when requested).
Meet Kade: They went from burning out in NYC public schools to living barefoot in a forest in India and creating a slower, sensory-aligned life that honors their neurodivergence, creativity, and capacity for care.
This week’s Meet a Backslider is someone I’m especially grateful to know and call a friend — Kade Friedman.
Kade is a white, non-binary, queer, neurodivergent educator with 20+ years of experience learning with neurodiverse communities. They are currently the Director of Education for PINE, the Program for Inclusion and Neurodiversity Education, and has consulted for NYU, Understood, other organizations and families. Kade is also the Board President of the Hudson Valley LGBTQ+ Community Center. So they have a lot going on!
Kade’s story is one of the most imaginative backslides I’ve heard. They went from burning out in NYC public schools to living barefoot in a forest in India, to creating a slower, sensory-aligned life that honors their neurodivergence, creativity, and capacity for care.
Their interview is full of gems about trusting your bodymind, stepping off the path others celebrate for you, and redefining ambition as something rooted in joy, community, and enoughness. It’s wise and generous and deeply grounding — I can’t wait for you to read it.
Me and Kade in 2023 when we met up in North Carolina. We also randomly went to the Tryon International Equestrian Center and this is where I learned about horse dressage. 🐎
Q1: Can you describe your history with ambition?
I’ve always been very ambitious. As a kid I was constantly inventing things - everything bagels with seeds in the dough so they didn’t fall off, clear windshield wipers, a line of Barbie clothes, and adding pockets to all of my clothing. My career dreams were fun and people-centered like running a hair salon or teaching kids to ski. I’ve always had unlimited energy for new ideas and projects, and even now I’m often creating something or learning a new skill.
Q2: Was there someone in your life who pushed you toward being ambitious in a certain way?
My parents are ambitious people, always doing more than just what’s expected. My dad ran marathons for many years on top of managing his podiatry practice, and my mom found jobs she enjoyed that also allowed her to write for local newspapers and work on larger writing projects. My grandfather, who I was very close with, had the most ambition of anyone I know. His ambition was tied to other people’s success, and I think that really spoke to me as a kid. Many of the projects I’m drawn to are in service to others. My grandfather also thought outside the box and was often putting things together that no one had ever done before. This also became part of my “ambition story” as I am often trying to see something in a way it hasn’t been seen or talked about before.
Q3: Was there a specific moment or breaking point that pushed you to think about how you defined success for yourself, or did it happen gradually?
After nine years of teaching kindergarteners, I started burning out. Part of this was that I was running out of energy by the end of the day and crashing when I got home to the point that I’d fall asleep instead of eating dinner - this was a clear indicator of my own neurodivergence in terms of the significance of my sensory needs and how I couldn’t care for myself.
In the first month of my ninth year I was asked for a new metric: to predict the reading level of the 4 and 5 year olds in my class ten months from now. It felt like the teaching I was doing was being replaced by meaningless tasks that didn’t show my skills as a teacher or the real growth of my students.
Working in the NYC Department of Education is often a lifelong job for someone as it includes great benefits, a pension, and is a very stable, secure job. My family was thrilled about my job security and the message to never leave this job was hammered into me.
In that ninth year of teaching I realized that I didn’t actually value having one job forever, and, in my early 30s, if I was already exhausted after a day of teaching there was no way I could realistically do that job for another 25 years so I could retire with the coveted pension and benefits. So I redefined success for myself as having meaningful work that tickles my brain, and doesn’t drain me.
Q4: How did you decide what kind of work or environment you wanted instead?
At that time, I just knew that I wanted to be out of the city and in nature, working with kids in a different way.
I had learned about unschooling, the philosophy that kids can learn what they want from who they want such as in community from intergenerational folks, doing regular life tasks like cooking, cleaning, and chopping fire wood. So I moved to Sadhana Forest, an intentional community in Auroville, India that practices unschooling and I lived in a hut in the trees for two years. I was offline most of each day, caring for my fellow staff and volunteers in the community, and living a simpler life.
We lived mostly outside, mostly barefoot, with lots of animals, and I took this time to imagine some possibilities for myself if I stayed in that community for a long time, as well as other places in the world where I could settle and do meaningful work that wouldn’t burn me out.
Q5: What has been the hardest part about letting go of the climb — whether that was status, money, or identity? And was it a “one and done” letting go or something you’ve had to do over and over?
Reframing money with you, Lindsey, was one of the most powerful parts of me letting go of that climb.* When you told me your philosophy about figuring out how much money you need to live the life you want and then using that number as a goal instead of perpetually trying to make more - this was life changing. I think and talk about this with my friends because the story we are told is a story of capitalism and growth, not of a happy life that meets your needs.
With Lindsey’s coaching and guidance I was able to really see how the hustle of my consulting business was not meeting my financial goals and was slowly beginning to drain me. This was also when I got my autism diagnosis and realized that I needed to work from home to limit sensory stimulation.
Around this time I was offered two dream jobs and took the one that was remote so I could work from home without feeling drained, and that job also had different projects and hats I could wear to meet my needs for novelty and change.
The financial stability of this job has allowed me to do pro bono work, a dream I’ve had for some time as I think anyone navigating the special education system should have a free advocate. Being able to let go of charging for every aspect of my work has been freeing.
* Note from Lindsey - I swear I didn’t bribe Kade to say this!
Q6: What are you ambitious about these days, if not work? In other words, what has backsliding given you that the old version of success never could?
Well, living in Sadhana Forest, the intentional community in Auroville, India, taught me to slow down, appreciate doing nothing, remove violent language from my vocabulary, and choose when, and when not, to engage in competition.
I developed a daily art practice, and began traveling the world by bicycle.
I continue to make art and cycle the trails of the Hudson Valley, and I’ve also gained many more hobbies and projects including home repair, furniture refinishing, altering clothes, community activism, and I’m the board president of the Hudson Valley LGBTQ+ Community Center.
If I had stayed teaching kids in public school I believe I’d be burnt out and have no time or space for hobbies or activism.
Q7: What would you say to someone who feels trapped in a high-pressure career but is scared to take a step back?
Go somewhere alone for a week, turn off your phone, and see what comes up in your bodymind. We only have one bodymind and if you don’t care for it, it won’t care for you.
I didn’t realize how burnt out I was from teaching and how much pressure I felt to keep that job until I was barefoot in the forest in southern India. While this was an extreme change, even just visiting a friend for a few days with your phone off can help you tap into parts of yourself that have been tamped down from work and life expectations.
Q8: When that gremlin voice shows up — comparing yourself to old colleagues or your past self — how do you quiet it?
I remind myself of how happy I am, how much space and time I have, and how much more fulfilling my life is now that I’m not grinding myself down and trying to be grateful for a job that’s literally hurting me. I think back to being in a classroom alone with 25 kids and realize there is no way I could do that right now. I also think about the teachers I coach on Zoom across the US and Canada and how important this work feels and how much it fulfills me. And when I finish a call I can take a walk, or lay down, or bake muffins, or paint my front porch - all because I gave myself permission to leave a job that others defined as my crowning achievement.
Q9: If your younger self could see you now, what would surprise them most?
That I don’t live in NYC. Having grown up in and near the city, that rush of energy and people was my normal. Moving to the forest in India really helped me see the impact of living in a loud, crowded city and how that affected my baseline level of calm. Even when I thought I was calm, I wasn’t! When I returned from India I was overwhelmed by the people, sounds, and smells of NYC and realized how much that distracted me from being in touch with myself and making choices about my needs.
One of my earliest career desires was to be a hairdresser. I couldn’t imagine a more happy way to live my life - talking and connecting with people while making them feel good about themselves. I think my younger self would be surprised that even though I didn’t become a professional hairdresser, I’ve cut my own hair, and some of my friends' hair, for many years and it feels great… and it didn’t have to be my job for me to do it.
If you’d like to learn more about Kade, visit kadefriedman.com.
Do you have your own story of intentionally backsliding? I’d love to hear it.
You might be in a season of intentional backsliding if:
You craved a career shift, did something about it, and now wrestle with feelings about walking away from a “good thing” especially “in this economy.” But ultimately feel like it’s a good thing!
You left the grind and feel positively about it
You’ve achieved what you thought you wanted - and now wonder… is this it?
You redirected your ambition toward other parts of your life: caregiving, health, rest, creativity, community
You’re not burned out yet, but you felt the edges fraying and you’re trying to choose a different path before the fire hits
You’re not alone and you’re not failing! You’re simply choosing to define success for yourself.
If you’d like to share your story for this Meet the Backsliders series, email me at lindsey(at)lindseylathrop.com.
I still plan on launching a small group coaching experience called The Intentional Backsliders Club, but instead of this fall, I’ll launch it in January 2026. It’s for people who are ready to think differently about success, value, and what matters right now.
I’m still shaping this coaching group, but here’s how I’m pretty sure it will be structured:
We’ll meet live on Zoom bi-weekly over 12 weeks (so 6 times)
It’ll be a small, supportive cohort of 8-12 people
Each week we’ll explore a major theme, like:
identity disruption (and potential loss of status)
fear of regret
financial & structural security
ambition redirection & enoughness
There will be time built in for self-reflection and community sharing
You’ll receive optional homework
I’ll provide light coaching during the live sessions
We’ll meet and learn from real Intentional Backsliders (I’m hoping to have them as guests)
If this sounds like something you’d be interested in, help me shape the idea!
If you’re not sure if this is for you, you’re welcome to email me at lindsey(at)lindseylathrop.com and we can sort it out.
And as always, I’m available for 1:1 coaching which you can learn all about here.
